So I don't understand, because you say those in the United States are not affected, yet I am in Puerto Rico which is a part of the United States and am still getting this message. Please clarify.
As a new Australian wave user, talk about bad timing! I’m super disappointed.
I don’t understand how they could just write off a huge market segment like that :(
I would have thought they would at least I introduce a minimum number of c/card transactions and if they are not reached simply charge a nominal fee. Surely $5 a month from non US users would make more financial sense then just dumping them :(
First of all I would like to say thank you for all the years of being able to use wave for free.
I only hope that the decision about access restrictions or accounts disactivations of the current users outside the US and Canada will not be announced and done overnight. It is the end of the year, many of us are closing the year and we need time (i.e. few months) to find a new accounting system and move on.
Please pin a message on the homepage or send a mass response on how to migrate our existent information over to Zoho. Thank you for your service thus far, I've recommended you to several other business owners here in Bermuda and in the UK. I have no complaints, I'm so sorry to read this news. All the best!
I tried it after Wave ended their bank feeds.....it was very clunky, pages very cluttered and not at all intuitive. Customer service was very ordinary.
Your decision makes no commercial sense. Getting customers on board is your primary task when building a business. You must clearly have a significant customer base outside the USA and Canada. All using your product and appreciating how good it is. They all were surprised that you let them have it for free and were, I'm sure, prepared to be asked to pay. But NO in your case you are telling them that you don't want them. You have plenty of American customers to make you rich, why bother with the rest of your portfolio. Commercial lunacy. As for Zoho, it's about as user friendly as a cornered Python. I am extremely saddened by this turn of events and not looking forward to the hours of work required to migrate my three company data sets.
It is all a little bit confusing. Does anyone know if we can still keep using it the way it is without any upgrades etc at least until the end of the financial year as I only use it to do invoices and accounting. I don't use the payment option. I am in Australia. Thanks in Advance
Oh Wave - its been a great 7 years for me. Pretty saddened by this, however when it was acquired by HR Block thought its days may be numbered. It'll be a goodbye from Australia, thanks for helping with my business thru the years. You will be missed!
It has been heading this way for a bit so no surprise.
But curious how long Wave will last to be honest.
Question - what is the Zoho special offer?
I don't want to go through all the signup rigmarole to find out it's no cheaper than another, better platform. No details. Does anyone know? The plans on their website aren't any cheaper than bigger players like Xero
Well typical of US and Canadian companies hey guys there is another world outside of you first Zoolzs shuts down its Sydney servers and leaves everyone in a hole now it's you, one thing is for sure Zoho won't get my business as it's another American company and from now on I will steer clear of them as it's fairly obvious they, like their government don't care about anyone but themselves.
This is so unhelpful. Especially to receive the initial email on 1st December advising the change was implemented on 30th November!
I came to Wave four years ago after being let down by Barclays Bank suddenly ceasing their partnership with QuickBooks - QB gave me an 'offer' which doubled my subscription charges after 6 months and there was no way to switch back - paying £18GBP per month for zero improvement.
Wave has been utterly excellent. Thanks to you and your low charges I was able to offer debit and credit card payments to my clients. My accounting needs are simple - invoices - products/services - EXPENSES - charges - profit & loss reports and nothing more. Unfortunately my number of customers means that Zoho would be charging me £18 again - and I really feel you have let me down by not giving enough notice to YET AGAIN totally change my accounting system.
I Would have been prepared to continue pay a fee to use Wave without Card Payments
What is wrong with businesses based in the US and CANADA? You give with one hand, saying you support all - and expect the world to change to suit you, yet taking away at the same time.
I may be able to consider moving over to PayPal and iZettle that will mean I can offer card payments by card reader - BUT IT IS GOING TO BE SO CONFUSING AND COMPLICATED because of the way PayPal and iZetttle (A PayPal Company) process their fees and charges, compared to the simplicity that Wave offered. I feel utterly abandoned and let down by Wave, and will not be processing any more payments via Wave from 1st December.
@Kniveswood said:
Why not just charge a monthly fee? Many users including ourselves would gladly pay.
It's not a question of fees; it's about the Open Banking regulation in the UK (known as PSD2 in Europe). Regulations are quite different in the US vs. other places, unfortunately, and this affects companies' ability to operate. US regulations are a lot looser. (I just finished a course on fintech that talked about this a bit.) I'm a fan of regulation — it's just that right now technology and regulation keep outstripping each other.
Our businesses have to adapt and change to global changes ESPECIALLY from the US (possibly Canada too) - why is Wave any different?
Really annoyed as have used and loved wave since it was launched and we were all promised it to be free forever back in the good ol' days!
So thanks for the great product but looks like the corporates have once again won and destroyed something beautiful.
People in EU may want to check out https://www.bokio.co.uk
as an alternative. A little bit of dejavu of what wave was like at first :-)
Thanks for everything but a question to your customers before a major business decision would have been great to perhaps offer something for payment as an option to those who loved the product rather than just ditch us outside of your area completely would have made more sense IMHO.
The current statement is like putting your middle finger up to all of us.
Popped over to Zoho and although they have a notion of Wave and signup form, there is no information about what the process is and how it works. First year of 'books' app sounds good but does it replace the invoicing / payment facilities within Wave?
Just tried Zip Books - their free tempter looked good but the second I tried to add a footnote to an invoice I was 'upgraded' to the most expensive of two payment options. So many providers of cloud based services seem to base their fee structure on the number of customers rather than whether a business is VAT Registered (or similar), or requires extra features such as Pay Roll.
Why couldn't Wave provide the following to non-US or Canada users?
1) Basic Accounting and Invoicing - (Free)
2) Expense and Income tracking - (Free)
3) Basic Reports (Profit and Loss, Balance Sheet, Cash Flow, Income By Customer, Aged Receivables, Account Balances, Account Transactions [General Ledger]) (Free)
4) Receipts App on Android and Apple - (Free)
5) Knowledge Base and in-app help via automated bot (as presently available) (Free)
6) Extended Reporting (Sales Tax, Vat 100, Trial Balances) - (Tier 1 Fee)
7) Bank Account Connections in EU & UK or other locations (Tier 2 Fee)
8) Payments by Invoice (Tier 2 or even Tier 3 Fee)
9) Pay Roll (Tier 3 Fee)
10) Pay-As-You-Go Assistance and help from accountants or other professionals.
Currently in the UK Options 1-6 are all free, option 7 was turned off recently, option 8 is about to be turned off, and options 9 and 10 are still current. Could nothing be done to add a middle option? It just feels like Wave says 'our model doesn't suit you if you live outside the US and Canada - you need to exit' and that other options have just been cast aside based on cost. Users love Wave as it is and would be willing to contribute more - without paying the exorbitant fees demanded by Quickbooks and Xero. The UK gave several years notice of the Open Banking system being implemented - why were Wave not looking at options to change their services before now?
I just came on here to say that I really enjoyed using Wave. There isn't any other software/website like it so the Zoho option is a no for me. I rather use Excel and I don't mean that in any way. I just mean I was here because I wanted be here. I even JUST had my other friends with their small businesses join and so this is also a bit embarrassing for me.
I guess I can't be upset with you guys for choosing yourselves first.
So if Waves closes for me (I am from malaysia) how can I transfer my data to another system ? waveapps is the best for my business.. all my 10 years business account using waveapps .. my status same like >> DougMuk ..
ZOHO is NOT a special deal. It is the current pricing.
EDIT - After pressing ZOHO, they have now offered me free for the first year - that sounds more like a special offer!
I am very sad as Wave has been my rock, helping me to keep track of my invoices etc.
I would be more than willing to pay a monthly fee.
I am grateful for having had Wave, it truly changed the way I did business.
Dear Wave Admin,
As an international user, will be happy to pay with all the limited functionality that is currently available now. Please consider to continue service for paying customers.
It's disappointing. Wave was/is an incredibly good tool to anyone with NO accounting background like me. It's sad to see that we would not be getting any support outside Canada & US. I believe most of us here would NOT have seen it as trouble even with a little bit of token charging just to ensure there is the sustenance of the solution.
I have also taken the liberty to check out Zoho Books and I must say, it's NOT user friendly at all. Even migration of simple thing like Invoices is a problem/headache due to different fields formats. Am not LIKING IT
Disappointed by this news along with everyone else but have been researching the many alternatives. The best fit for me now seems to be Invoice Ninja (https://www.invoiceninja.com/).
It seems to have everything I need and much more and seems easy to use as well. Does anyone have any opinions on it, are there any “gotcha’s” that I may have missed?
Comments
So I don't understand, because you say those in the United States are not affected, yet I am in Puerto Rico which is a part of the United States and am still getting this message. Please clarify.
I don’t understand how they could just write off a huge market segment like that :(
I would have thought they would at least I introduce a minimum number of c/card transactions and if they are not reached simply charge a nominal fee. Surely $5 a month from non US users would make more financial sense then just dumping them :(
First of all I would like to say thank you for all the years of being able to use wave for free.
I only hope that the decision about access restrictions or accounts disactivations of the current users outside the US and Canada will not be announced and done overnight. It is the end of the year, many of us are closing the year and we need time (i.e. few months) to find a new accounting system and move on.
Please pin a message on the homepage or send a mass response on how to migrate our existent information over to Zoho. Thank you for your service thus far, I've recommended you to several other business owners here in Bermuda and in the UK. I have no complaints, I'm so sorry to read this news. All the best!
I tried it after Wave ended their bank feeds.....it was very clunky, pages very cluttered and not at all intuitive. Customer service was very ordinary.
Would be interested in what other Aussies switch to.
Your decision makes no commercial sense. Getting customers on board is your primary task when building a business. You must clearly have a significant customer base outside the USA and Canada. All using your product and appreciating how good it is. They all were surprised that you let them have it for free and were, I'm sure, prepared to be asked to pay. But NO in your case you are telling them that you don't want them. You have plenty of American customers to make you rich, why bother with the rest of your portfolio. Commercial lunacy. As for Zoho, it's about as user friendly as a cornered Python. I am extremely saddened by this turn of events and not looking forward to the hours of work required to migrate my three company data sets.
It is all a little bit confusing. Does anyone know if we can still keep using it the way it is without any upgrades etc at least until the end of the financial year as I only use it to do invoices and accounting. I don't use the payment option. I am in Australia. Thanks in Advance
Oh Wave - its been a great 7 years for me. Pretty saddened by this, however when it was acquired by HR Block thought its days may be numbered. It'll be a goodbye from Australia, thanks for helping with my business thru the years. You will be missed!
It has been heading this way for a bit so no surprise.
But curious how long Wave will last to be honest.
Question - what is the Zoho special offer?
I don't want to go through all the signup rigmarole to find out it's no cheaper than another, better platform. No details. Does anyone know? The plans on their website aren't any cheaper than bigger players like Xero
What a shame! I love Wave and have reccomended this to countless businesses.
Please re consider, charge us £14.99 per month, I know I will happily pay it!
Well typical of US and Canadian companies hey guys there is another world outside of you first Zoolzs shuts down its Sydney servers and leaves everyone in a hole now it's you, one thing is for sure Zoho won't get my business as it's another American company and from now on I will steer clear of them as it's fairly obvious they, like their government don't care about anyone but themselves.
This is such a disappointment. I would definitely also pay a monthly fee for this.
Btw: was anybody able to get rid of the major notification block about the change that's currently being shown on every page?
The product is becoming quite unusable already because of this minor thing - making me worry about what's gonna happen in the future. Such a pity.
This is so unhelpful. Especially to receive the initial email on 1st December advising the change was implemented on 30th November!
I came to Wave four years ago after being let down by Barclays Bank suddenly ceasing their partnership with QuickBooks - QB gave me an 'offer' which doubled my subscription charges after 6 months and there was no way to switch back - paying £18GBP per month for zero improvement.
Wave has been utterly excellent. Thanks to you and your low charges I was able to offer debit and credit card payments to my clients. My accounting needs are simple - invoices - products/services - EXPENSES - charges - profit & loss reports and nothing more. Unfortunately my number of customers means that Zoho would be charging me £18 again - and I really feel you have let me down by not giving enough notice to YET AGAIN totally change my accounting system.
I Would have been prepared to continue pay a fee to use Wave without Card Payments
What is wrong with businesses based in the US and CANADA? You give with one hand, saying you support all - and expect the world to change to suit you, yet taking away at the same time.
I may be able to consider moving over to PayPal and iZettle that will mean I can offer card payments by card reader - BUT IT IS GOING TO BE SO CONFUSING AND COMPLICATED because of the way PayPal and iZetttle (A PayPal Company) process their fees and charges, compared to the simplicity that Wave offered. I feel utterly abandoned and let down by Wave, and will not be processing any more payments via Wave from 1st December.
Our businesses have to adapt and change to global changes ESPECIALLY from the US (possibly Canada too) - why is Wave any different?
Really annoyed as have used and loved wave since it was launched and we were all promised it to be free forever back in the good ol' days!
So thanks for the great product but looks like the corporates have once again won and destroyed something beautiful.
People in EU may want to check out
https://www.bokio.co.uk
as an alternative. A little bit of dejavu of what wave was like at first :-)
Thanks for everything but a question to your customers before a major business decision would have been great to perhaps offer something for payment as an option to those who loved the product rather than just ditch us outside of your area completely would have made more sense IMHO.
The current statement is like putting your middle finger up to all of us.
Popped over to Zoho and although they have a notion of Wave and signup form, there is no information about what the process is and how it works. First year of 'books' app sounds good but does it replace the invoicing / payment facilities within Wave?
PS. Would of been happy (happier...) to pay a subscription like probably every else outside the States...
Just tried Zip Books - their free tempter looked good but the second I tried to add a footnote to an invoice I was 'upgraded' to the most expensive of two payment options. So many providers of cloud based services seem to base their fee structure on the number of customers rather than whether a business is VAT Registered (or similar), or requires extra features such as Pay Roll.
Why couldn't Wave provide the following to non-US or Canada users?
1) Basic Accounting and Invoicing - (Free)
2) Expense and Income tracking - (Free)
3) Basic Reports (Profit and Loss, Balance Sheet, Cash Flow, Income By Customer, Aged Receivables, Account Balances, Account Transactions [General Ledger]) (Free)
4) Receipts App on Android and Apple - (Free)
5) Knowledge Base and in-app help via automated bot (as presently available) (Free)
6) Extended Reporting (Sales Tax, Vat 100, Trial Balances) - (Tier 1 Fee)
7) Bank Account Connections in EU & UK or other locations (Tier 2 Fee)
8) Payments by Invoice (Tier 2 or even Tier 3 Fee)
9) Pay Roll (Tier 3 Fee)
10) Pay-As-You-Go Assistance and help from accountants or other professionals.
Currently in the UK Options 1-6 are all free, option 7 was turned off recently, option 8 is about to be turned off, and options 9 and 10 are still current. Could nothing be done to add a middle option? It just feels like Wave says 'our model doesn't suit you if you live outside the US and Canada - you need to exit' and that other options have just been cast aside based on cost. Users love Wave as it is and would be willing to contribute more - without paying the exorbitant fees demanded by Quickbooks and Xero. The UK gave several years notice of the Open Banking system being implemented - why were Wave not looking at options to change their services before now?
That's bad news. I have been so happy with this platform, why do I have to change now??? 😥😥😥
Is there any option you should keep it open for outside US users for a small monthly fee?
I just came on here to say that I really enjoyed using Wave. There isn't any other software/website like it so the Zoho option is a no for me. I rather use Excel and I don't mean that in any way. I just mean I was here because I wanted be here. I even JUST had my other friends with their small businesses join and so this is also a bit embarrassing for me.
I guess I can't be upset with you guys for choosing yourselves first.
Timed that well - I signed up just before the snip, and spent many hours creating my 20/21 accounts.
Oh well, these things happen.
I've found a perfect free alternative - Bokio : it's quite similar to Wave but also features MTD and bank feeds. Swedish company but very UK-centric
Hi, I am from Puerto Rico. I have been using this app since 2015. Are we being included as US users or rejected as outsiders?
So if Waves closes for me (I am from malaysia) how can I transfer my data to another system ? waveapps is the best for my business.. all my 10 years business account using waveapps
.. my status same like >> DougMuk ..
ZOHO is NOT a special deal. It is the current pricing.
EDIT - After pressing ZOHO, they have now offered me free for the first year - that sounds more like a special offer!
I am very sad as Wave has been my rock, helping me to keep track of my invoices etc.
I would be more than willing to pay a monthly fee.
I am grateful for having had Wave, it truly changed the way I did business.
Dear Wave Admin,
As an international user, will be happy to pay with all the limited functionality that is currently available now. Please consider to continue service for paying customers.
It's disappointing. Wave was/is an incredibly good tool to anyone with NO accounting background like me. It's sad to see that we would not be getting any support outside Canada & US. I believe most of us here would NOT have seen it as trouble even with a little bit of token charging just to ensure there is the sustenance of the solution.
I have also taken the liberty to check out Zoho Books and I must say, it's NOT user friendly at all. Even migration of simple thing like Invoices is a problem/headache due to different fields formats. Am not LIKING IT
@mzp @MartaP @Bart123 @izrinaismail re keeping your account/data active in Wave, please see my response on Page 6, which drills-in on Kirk's statement that Wave has no current plans to disable existing user accounts.
@Bart123 @BELL88 Zoho's offer is first 12 months' free on Zoho Books.
@eerobat @Lady re Puerto Rico, please see my response on Page 4
It seems to have everything I need and much more and seems easy to use as well. Does anyone have any opinions on it, are there any “gotcha’s” that I may have missed?